I Have Dropped Frames, What Do I Do?

MOD EDIT

I am recycling this post, and making it a sticky, as it is a great example of how to troubleshoot dropped frames.

Please perform the troubleshooting steps listed here when experiencing dropped frames. 

/MOD EDIT END


Who to contact for Refunds?

Refund due to dropped frames only present in Gameshow. Xsplit and OBS doesnt present this issue as they have native support for AMD's Hardware encoding where as gameshow Only has software, Intel and Nvidia.  Who do I need to get in contact with to start this process as I have troubleshot since purchasing to resolve the issue and its not possible to get rid of the frame drop.

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  • Hardware encoding has absolutly nothing to do with dropped frames.

    Masen can help you with the dropped frames(which is likely just a mis-configuration) or a refund if you so desire.

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  • The settings aside from the encoder were identical between the two. On my gaming desktop which has the RX460 4gb and on a dedicated i7 streaming PC with the quicksync encoder gameshow stops processing the USB Bandwidth correctly where OBS and XSplit do not.  At this point I believe a refund is the only option which sucks because I truly liked the gameshow interface and the way it was able to be configured.

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  • The USB bandwidth alert alerts you to when no frames have been delivered from your USB device for over 10 seconds. If this is occuring, it would affect OBS and xsplit as well, they just do not notify you like we do. We also include a tool that shows you what devices are using what USB bus so you can optimize the way they are connected. Sounds like you need to separate a few devices to ensure optimal bandwidth usage.

    I am sure we could help determine the issue of the dropped frames if you want to.

    I would also like to point out that we don't hide dropped frame counts in logs like others have been known to do. So you may be dropping frames in other software without being alerted to it. 

    Masen

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  • On the USB3 channel it is only my avermedia LGX and thats the one that it always complains about. 920 and key and mouse are on usb 2 channel.

     

    In gameshow it completely freezes the video after about 5 minutes. OBS you can go watch my stream from last night as I was testing in OBS. Never froze and kept streaming for about 45 minutes or so.

     

    In OBS Studio you can see your dropped frames right on the main screen.

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  • That is quite odd. We have used the LGX many times, and we have one sitting in our web studio. Certainly understand the frustration though.

    In OBS studio, they do not count duplicate frames in the dropped frame counter. They show them in logs only as late frames. They do have a dropped frame counter in the main UI yes. Unless they recently changed how it works,  late frames become duplicate frames, which they did not count in dropped frames, though technically it is a dropped frame, as it was dropped and a duplicate created.

    Regardless of that, you should not be experiencing those USB bandwidth issues, so I understand your frustration.

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  • Let me test tonight once im home. I was recreating my obs studio stream via TeamViewer and want to make sure it isnt something there causing it.

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  • So after testing with a fresh reboot USB Bandwidth issue was resolved. Something with the way teamviewer works even after a session ends doesnt free up all the resources correctly. So even sitting in front of it the Bandwidth issue was still present.

     

    After getting that sorted, began building the overlay.
    Layer 1 Muxy, Revlo and 5 social media tags.

    Layer 2 Logitech C920 @ 720p/30 and 920 Mic, new mic comes in today and will be straight through the LGX

    Layer 3 LGX

    Recording:

    QS1080/60 @10000 Results in Massive Dropped frames.

    QS1080/30 @5000 Dropped Frames build occassionally. 96 in a 5 minute video.

    QS720/60 @5000 Similar Performance to the 1080/30 121 in 5 minutes.

    Streaming:

    Gameshow - QS720/60 @3500 Defaults for Twitch 14000 dropped frames in 2.5 hours of stream.  

    OBS - QS720/60 @3500 Defaults for Twitch 1200 dropped frames in 1.5 hours or stream.  

     

    If you check out the stream last night which is the 2.5 hour stream, ignore the random part in conan when it comes to a crawl. Not sure what happened there but that wasnt the streaming PC that was walking into a large base area that ate everything my system had.  I would prefer to use gameshow because I like the UI and feel better than OBS or Xsplit.

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  • Bryce Stejskal you said you have LGX in the studio, what settings do you have it set to in Gameshow?  Where it is asking for Square Pixel or other selections?

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  • It is set to Square Pixel.

    1280x720, pretty generic settings.

    ---

    From your post earlier... you indicated you have dropped frames in OBS. Can you confirm?

    OBS - QS720/60 @3500 Defaults for Twitch 1200 dropped frames in 1.5 hours or stream. 

    Also, are you seeing this at the bottom of the UI or in the logs?

     

    Have you tried the settings in Gameshow that drop frames, as a record to disk instead of a stream? Does that drop frames?

    ----

    • You indicated that the higher bitrate/higher fps dropped many frames
    • You indicated that  two tests at the same bitrate but differing frame rates dropped roughly the same amount.

    There are not many data points there, but those two, combined with your indication that you drop frames in the UI of OBS, points to ISP connectivity issues.

     

     

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  • The ISP thing, while monitoring in twitch dashboard it never drops below 2800 in either OBS or Gameshow. 

    One thing Ill have to look into is how to get the LGX to display at 720p.  I dont plan on streaming at 1080p since Im not partnered anyway.  Any time i drop to 720 it goes out of range. Or is it just utilizing the downscale feature under output?

    Ill run tests tonight with the recording at the same settings that I stream with on GS to see if it still drops.

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  • Free Version:

    • Help Menu>Send Support Information
    • Save Button
    • Upload to cloud hosting(drop box or google drive, etc)
    • PM me the link.

    Paid Version:

    • Help Menu>Send Support Information
    • File a Case
    • Post the case number you get in your email here.

     

    As for the capture card, if it goes out of range at 720p, then the device you are capturing is likely sending a different resolution. Not much of a benefit to changing the output of your device to 720p over 1080p.

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  • I sent it in case number 00465668

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  • You are dropping tons of frames on the internet side according to your logs.

    Feb 21 20:31:35 V: Drop 10
    Feb 21 20:31:36 V: Drop 12
    Feb 21 20:31:37 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:31:38 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:31:39 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:31:40 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:31:41 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:31:43 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:31:45 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:31:46 V: Drop 16
    Feb 21 20:31:47 V: Drop 11
    Feb 21 20:31:48 V: Drop 7
    Feb 21 20:31:49 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:31:50 V: Drop 6
    Feb 21 20:31:51 V: Drop 5
    Feb 21 20:31:52 V: Drop 9
    Feb 21 20:31:53 V: Drop 6
    Feb 21 20:31:54 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:31:55 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:31:57 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:00 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:01 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:02 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:03 V: Drop 17
    Feb 21 20:32:04 V: Drop 8
    Feb 21 20:32:05 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:06 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:32:10 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:32:11 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:12 V: Drop 8
    Feb 21 20:32:13 V: Drop 4
    Feb 21 20:32:15 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:16 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:17 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:33 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:35 V: Drop 4
    Feb 21 20:32:36 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:37 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:38 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:39 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:32:40 V: Drop 6
    Feb 21 20:32:41 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:42 V: Drop 5
    Feb 21 20:32:43 V: Drop 8
    Feb 21 20:32:44 V: Drop 6
    Feb 21 20:32:45 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:32:46 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:47 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:32:48 V: Drop 4
    Feb 21 20:32:50 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:32:51 V: Drop 6
    Feb 21 20:32:52 V: Drop 7
    Feb 21 20:32:53 V: Drop 5
    Feb 21 20:32:59 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:00 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:01 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:02 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:33:03 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:33:04 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:33:05 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:06 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:07 V: Drop 4
    Feb 21 20:33:08 V: Drop 5
    Feb 21 20:33:09 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:33:10 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:33:11 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:12 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:33:13 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:33:14 V: Drop 3
    Feb 21 20:33:15 V: Drop 1
    Feb 21 20:33:16 V: Drop 2
    Feb 21 20:33:17 V: Drop 7
    Feb 21 23:28:29 V: Total drop count   : 3934
    Feb 21 23:28:29 V: Avg frames per drop: 3
    Feb 21 23:28:29 V: Max frames per drop: 45

     

    As for performance, you seem to have no issues with frame delivery, as all frames were well under the 18.6 ms for 60fps and 33.3ms for 30fps.:

    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 6 ms (6977 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 7 ms (7239 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3917 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 6 ms (6053 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 6 ms (6783 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5324 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1498 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:35] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5829 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5935 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 4 ms (4468 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 4 ms (4396 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5174 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1258 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1850 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5939 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2899 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2020 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2086 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:36] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2717 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1167 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5783 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3783 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 9 ms (9469 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2897 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3868 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1845 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3302 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:37] -  404: CompleteOutput 6 ms (6262 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:38] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2689 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:38] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1695 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:38] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3861 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:38] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3050 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:38] -  404: CompleteOutput 6 ms (6196 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 1 ms (1128 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3885 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5346 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 7 ms (7460 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 5 ms (5723 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 4 ms (4404 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:39] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2490 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:40] -  404: CompleteOutput 2 ms (2004 us)
    [Feb 21 20:31:40] -  404: CompleteOutput 3 ms (3810 us)

     

    This coincides with the fact that OBS is dropping frames as well.

    You need to test your upload speed, and the path to the ingestion server. Test your upload with testmy.net/upload , and the r1ch tool for the ingestion path I have posted here a bunch of times, do a search here for r1ch.

    Please post screens of the results.

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  • Your screenshots confirm it is an upload bandwidth issue.

    Comparing your logs(they tell me which ingestion server you were using) to the R1CH result, it shows the pathway to the ingestion server is healthy an capable of accepting greater than 10MBps. So the pathway is healthy.

    Looking at your upload speed test, If 9MBps is your average, and it fluctuates much, this would be the cause of your frame drops for the 3.5MBps tests. Your flash logs back this up. I have a 7.5MBps upload at home, and drop frames in the same manor if I stream at 3.5MBps.

    Addtionaly, that may only be a portion of the issue. Your stream machine is using the integrated intel GPU according to your logs. Gameshow is also rendering on that same integrated intel graphics. So is everything in Windows. On top of that, you are then tasking the integrated GPU with QuickSync Encoding. This is likely saturating that GPU. If it was an NVIDIA GPU, the NVENC chips are dedicated, so you likely not run into this issue, since Gameshow and Windows would not likely saturate the card with the addition of NVENC.  

    The TL;DR:

    • Your internet upload bandwidth(and it's variance) is not sufficient for your encoding settings. Ask your ISP if you can upgrade, or lower your streaming bitrate.
    • Your stream machine can't handle much more than 5MBps QuickSync. Likely because it is also using the integrated GPU to render your desktop and everything else in Gameshow, so it is becoming saturated. Consider adding a cheap($40-$80) NVIDIA GPU if those higher bitrates for QuickSync are important to you. This would also open up NVENC.
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  • This is a mini so adding a dedicated gpu isnt possible unfortunately. 5mbps is plenty if it can do 720p60 at 3500 for recording im happy with that as far as streaming we are hoping one of the fiber providers makes the 2 block jump so we can dump comcast.

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  • Mini as in mini ITX motherboard? It may support bifurcation of the PCIe slot. Otherwise, yeah, you are kinda stuck with what you have.

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  • Its an HP EliteDesk 800g1. So Im stuck.

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  • Adjusted settings and had no drops last night. Thank you for the assistance.

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  • Great! Glad we could help 🙂

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